Statues should be made of durable soap that dissolves after 60 years, forcing each generation to actively decide whether to re-erect them — acknowledging that we can hold both admiration for historical figures' greatness and condemnation of their failings.

31:06was wearing when he was shot and you can see the bullet hole. When you see these things, you realize these are real people and they're as flawed as we are and they gave us great things and they also failed us in other ways. And so I always think we need to recognize that. And I have this idea that all statues should be made of a very durable soap

31:28that lasts about 60 years and then they dissolve and then you decide whether you reerect it. And that that should be every statue because the minute you some you carve someone in marble and put them up, especially in the modern era, the clock is ticking. And and and so why go through all the trouble of taking these statues down, making them a some a material that will dissolve and then you

31:54actively have to decide should we put it up again? I mean, that's the opposite of Mount Rushmore, isn't it? Mount Rushmore's that's there for 7 million years. All right, that's that's not going anywhere. I thought Mount Rushmore was naturally occurring that it was just it found it. [laughter] Wow, what a coincidence. Yeah, what a coincidence. It was just a pattern of erosion. Um, [laughter] God really does love America. Theore

32:18Roosevelt's uh little glasses just natural natural erosion. I mean, one thing I was going to mention that I think is worth mentioning is that if you go to Berlin, they go out of their way to acknowledge, you know, what was happening in Berlin from 1938 through 45 and it's everywhere. And I think that that almost endeared me to the city more because I thought this is the way to deal with these with these,

32:49you know, crimes. But I guess the crimes of the Nazis were so extreme that there was there was no option but to do that. And every national hero has almost without exception done things that would be seen by their opponents perhaps particularly by their international enemies as you know as as as troublesome. So for you know I mean the founding father I mean Benjamin Franklin from from one British

33:19perspective might be seen as a traitor. So also Washington I mean it's possible to see them if you are a a kind of a tubthumping British patriot like Dominic in that light. And likewise the French love Napoleon to the British whether they were fighting him. Napoleon was a tyrant. I mean, not to everyone, but but but to most people. And I guess that our equivalent, the British equivalent of

33:41the founding fathers would be Churchill, who clearly did remarkable thing. You know, he saved Britain and maybe Europe and by extension the world from a terrible tyranny, but clearly also did terrible things. And you mentioned the um the episode on the Dartels, I think, before we started recording this. You know, that was terrible. There are all kinds of debates about what he you know his his responsibility for famine in

34:08India and and so we've been going through the kind of reckoning I guess that America's been going through with regard to to Jefferson certainly and and to Washington. >> The thing that I think about with Churchill is that you can see he is this impressive fascinating character throughout his whole life but he's often the wrong tool at the wrong at at the moment. And then in 1940,