The founding fathers knew slavery was wrong — Jefferson wrote a condemnation of it into the original Declaration — and their failure to act on that knowledge, even at the cost of financial ruin, is a profound moral failing that must be acknowledged without renouncing their achievements.
Conan argues that Jefferson's hypocrisy is especially damning because he knew better — he wrote an anti-slavery passage into the Declaration that was removed by other southerners — yet he chose to preserve Monticello through slave labor, and that Americans must hold both truths simultaneously: their greatness and their terrible failings. ✦ AI generated
Conan O'Brien · The Rest Is History · 2026-07-25 · original ↗
starts at this moment · 27:02
He knew better. He knew better. And as you pointed out, he, if you've been to Monticello, it's absolutely stunning. He's very proud of Monticello. and he probably as you said probably loves Monticello more than anybody or anything and the only way he can keep it going is you know with slavery. So, it's a terrible failing and I'm a big believer in we need to acknowledge those things while I think not throwing the baby out with bath water... It's hard not to to hold them to the standard that uh well that they demand for themselves. If they're talking about liberty and writing the Declaration of Independence, then of course they should be judged by those standards. Um it's not anachronistic to do so.
verbatim transcript · starts at 27:02
27:02was brought up in. He's a Virginia. Um, slavery is just part of their world. Uh, and he didn't know any better. And that's just not true. and that you said that, you know, he he wrote in his original draft of the Declaration of Independence, uh, he lambasted slavery and tore away at it and said this is a great evil and that, uh, other southerners made him take it out. But he
27:31knew better. He knew better. And as you pointed out, he, if you've been to Montichello, it's absolutely stunning. He's very proud of Montichello. and he probably as you said probably loves Montichello more than anybody or anything and the only way he can keep it going is you know with slavery. So, it's a terrible failing and I'm a big believer in we need to acknowledge those things while I think not throwing the baby out
28:01with bath water and closing one's eyes to the fact that he was a remarkable writer, a remarkable ideologue, a remarkable politician, a remarkable president. And I suppose it's a it's a question for Americans that I am not qualified to appine on. How easy it is to do that to have this man of incomparable genius who also has this great kind of moral blot and can the two be squared. You and
28:32Dominic do this all the time on your podcast. You'll be talking about um you know Admiral Lord Nelson and you absolutely I mean uh Dominic clearly has a portrait of Nelson in his bedroom that he that he looks at just before he he pulls up the covers. You know he gave me um a letter of Nelson. >> Oh. And it's got a little picture of Nelson. So actually it's in my bedroom.
28:55So >> Oh, okay. So you're just as guilty but you know a a good Englishman loves Lord Nelson. And then there are times where he really lets you down. Um, and you think he behaved very poorly and showed bad character with his with his wife. And we all have to do that all the time. We all have to square the remarkable thing about these people and the