Audio · 2026-04-08 · 1h 2m · 6 moments

Josh Shapiro on Trump, Iran War Chaos, Israel's Failure, the Economy, and 2028 Race

(0:00) Jason intros PA Governor Josh Shapiro (1:40) Shapiro's blueprint for PA: pro-growth, pro-freedom, less red tape, prosecuting fraud (13:05) Wealth tax debate, what Dems are getting wrong on business (20:17) 2024 Democratic collapse, future of the party, socialist wing (38:12) How Congress has become "pathetic," political corruption (47:18) Antisemitism, Netanyahu's failures, and the chaos of the Iran War Follow Gov. Shapiro: https://x.com/GovernorShapiro Follow the besties: ✦ AI generated

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Data◆

Pennsylvania has become a pro-growth state by cutting taxes seven times, dramatically speeding up permitting, and creating a money-back guarantee on permits, making it the only growing economy in the northeastern US.

Shapiro details his pro-growth blueprint for Pennsylvania: seven tax cuts, a transformed permitting process with a money-back guarantee that issued 40 million permits with only 5 refunds, and workforce investments. He frames this as making Pennsylvania the sole growing economy in the Northeast.

transcript

Josh Shapiro: We are a pro-growth state. We want businesses to come here and grow. I'm proud of the fact that we've created more jobs in all but two states in the entire country. We've cut taxes seven different times to be more competitive, cut taxes for small businesses, also for families trying to afford childcare for seniors, for working Pennsylvanians. We've taken our permitting process. That's usually the ticket you need, say, to build your building, right? If you're trying to build something here in Pennsylvania, we were bottom five in the country. I think we're now a national model, easily top five in terms of speed. We've got a money back guarantee on all of our permits. If we don't get you your permit in time, we'll give you your money back. And fun fact, we've issued 40 million permits during my time as governor. We've only had to issue 5 refunds, meaning only five of those permits were late. We are now the only growing economy in the northeastern part of the United States. At the same time, we're investing in workforce development, especially if you don't have a college degree, tripling funding for vo-tech and apprenticeship programs and understanding the need to take the workforce we have today and prepare them for jobs here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

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Mechanism

Government inefficiency and permitting delays breed public cynicism and create openings for extremist voices. When people repeatedly experience government working against them, they grow distrustful of the system and become vulnerable to dark voices on the extremes.

Shapiro argues that bureaucratic dysfunction has a political cost beyond economics: when people get frustrated trying to get permits or open businesses, they become cynical about government, which creates fertile ground for extremist voices to exploit that distrust.

transcript

Josh Shapiro: What does that person feel after they try and get their permit, they can't get it? They try and open up their small business, it won't work. They get frustrated. By the way, they get pissed. And then not only are they pissed at that agency or that governor or they're pissed at that state government, they also grow, and this is an important point, a little more cynical about government and a little bit more frustrated about the process. And when that happens, I think that creates more distrust in our system. And it creates more opportunity for, I think, frankly, dark voices on extremes to come in and take advantage of people. I find that, you know, if we get it done the right way, if we process things quickly, if we get people to yes, then maybe a byproduct of that is a little bit less cynicism in our system.

explains mechanism · 1gives example · 1rebuts · 1

Claim

There should be zero tolerance for fraud in government spending. While people can disagree on spending priorities, everyone should agree that stealing taxpayer dollars is wrong, and Pennsylvania leads in Medicaid fraud prosecutions as a result.

Shapiro distinguishes between legitimate debates over spending priorities and the theft of taxpayer money through fraud. He describes his record of prosecuting PPP loan fraud as attorney general and Medicaid fraud as governor, arguing for a zero-tolerance approach that ensures dollars reach their intended recipients.

transcript

Josh Shapiro: Now, you and I may differ on, hey, should we spend a dollar on that initiative or not? And by the way, those are super healthy differences, and we should argue that out. We should debate that. But where we should have no difference is if someone's stealing that dollar, instead of going to its intended purpose, we should be against that. And I am. Prior to serving as governor and having the privilege of sitting here in this office serving the good people of Pennsylvania, I was the state's attorney general. And you'll remember back during COVID, there were those PPP loans to help our small businesses and other businesses stay afloat. We'd probably agree, like, good idea, right? We got to keep businesses afloat. But during that time, I went out and prosecuted a whole bunch of people for stealing that PPP money, for not using it for its intended purposes. Here as governor, I've maintained a similar focus through my Office of Inspector General, rooting out fraud, through making sure, by the way, we're not fronting you money when you're going out and providing, say, human services. You have to submit for reimbursements, and you've got to make sure you prove that you did that work. When we find that someone took advantage of the system, we're referring them to prosecutors. I'm proud of the fact that we've had more Medicaid fraud prosecutions in Pennsylvania than I think any other state. Maybe there was one other. We're certainly toward the top of that list. Proud of the fact that we've identified that. We've sent it to prosecutors and we've addressed it. If we can address it administratively, we do. If not, we understand that those things need to be prosecuted. We should have a 0 tolerance policy for that. And we should make sure that if we're going to utilize a hard-earned dollar of a taxpayer for a purpose, like providing someone with healthcare that they need, we got to make sure that dollar makes its way to that person so they get their healthcare.

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Claim◆

Trump's tax cut for the wealthy, paid for by slashing Medicaid, is dumb economic policy that shifts the burden onto struggling people, will shutter rural hospitals, and add costs to the middle class through higher private insurance premiums.

Shapiro directly attacks Trump's fiscal policy, arguing that giving tax cuts to those who don't need them while cutting Medicaid will cause 500,000 Pennsylvanians to lose healthcare, shutter 26 rural hospitals, and increase costs for everyone else through higher private insurance premiums.

transcript

Josh Shapiro: What I would not do, because you asked what I would do, what I would not do is what President Trump did at the federal level with an aid and assist from a whole bunch of circumfans in Congress by passing that budget bill or the beautiful budget bill or whatever the hell they call it. In effect, what they did was they gave a tax cut for those who simply do not need it, right? And by the way, in the palace of truth and justice, you talk to those folks. They know that they didn't need that tax cut. And what happens as a result of that is I've got 500,000 Pennsylvanians who are going to lose their healthcare. I've got 120,000 who've already lost their healthcare, about another 320,000 or so were likely to lose Medicaid next year. I've got 26 rural hospitals that are likely to shutter because these are rural hospitals that are working on an operating deficit, and they're relying so much on Medicaid, which has been slashed by the federal government. So the idea that Donald Trump thought it was smart economic policy to give a tax cut to those who don't need it and pay for it with those who are struggling and create even greater economic disparities, that is going to hold back our entire economy. Just take those 500,000 people who aren't going to have healthcare. You're paying for that, and I'm paying for that with our private insurance. So what Donald Trump has done is shifted that burden onto those who are struggling, making it harder for them, adding additional cost to the middle class. And I think that is, that lacks, frankly, it's just dumb economic policy.

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Claim◆

The Democratic Party must have a real debate about what it stands for and what it's willing to fight for. It should be the party of education, safety, economic opportunity, and freedom — the last of which Republicans have abandoned by trying to control what books kids read, what women do with their bodies, and how people raise their children.

Shapiro argues the Democratic Party needs an open internal debate about ideas rather than purity tests. He defines his four-pillar platform — education, safe communities, pro-growth economics, and freedom — and argues Republicans have ceded the freedom mantle by trying to control books, women's healthcare, and parenting.

transcript

Josh Shapiro: I think it's also really important for our party to have, for my party, to have a real debate and to have a real discussion about ideas. What are we for and what are we willing to fight for? And I realize that process may at times look a little messy. I realize, and I mean this with the utmost respect, it gives folks like you on a podcast or on a show the ability to sort of pick apart, maybe try and, you know, sort of parse words or one Democrat at another and try and create conflict. But I would just say that overall, having this debate and having these issues be raised and having disagreements, that's healthy for our party. And ultimately, I think our party's poised to take back power and that will make us better at governing. To me, the whole purpose of running in an election is getting the chance to govern, not just winning the election. And so having these debates right now puts us in a better position when we win those elections. ... I'm for investing in public education, giving every child of God an opportunity. I'm for safe communities, and we're building that here, and we're reducing crime in all of our communities. I'm for a pro-growth economy where we generate more energy, we generate more jobs, where we create more opportunities, particularly in our rural communities and forgotten communities that have been too often left behind. And here's the fourth thing I'm for. I am for freedom. And I'll tell you what, this president represents a party that used to be known as the Party of Freedom. And now they have turned their backs on that. They want to tell my kids what books they're allowed to read. They want to tell women what medicines they can take and what they can do with their bodies. They want to control the way I raised my child. They want to say, you know, every day that, yeah, you can vote, but we're going to set the rules and try and rig them in a way where you're not going to be successful. They are not the party of freedom. And I think the Democratic Party has an opportunity to be the party of education, safety, economic opportunity, and freedom. That's what we're doing here in Pennsylvania, and that's what I'm going to continue to put forth.

extends · 1

Claim

Congress has abdicated its constitutional responsibilities and become a rubber stamp for the president. The leadership there are 'sad, pathetic people' who fail to act as a separate, co-equal branch of government — whether on tariffs or declaring war.

Shapiro delivers a sharp condemnation of congressional leadership, arguing they have abandoned their constitutional duty to serve as a check on executive power. He singles out Speaker Johnson as a rubber stamp and laments the loss of bipartisan collaboration.

transcript

Josh Shapiro: I actually think the Congress of the United States, the leadership there, I mean, they're frankly kind of sad, pathetic people. And let me explain why, right? You put, what's his name, Johnson in as speaker, and he's effectively a rubber stamp for anything Donald Trump wants. And by the way, whether you agree with Trump or not, I think he can agree that you'd like your member of Congress to at least meet the burdens that they have on them in the Constitution of the United States, which is to be a check, which is to be a separate branch of government and a branch of government that has meaningful responsibilities here. When the Congress of the United States walks away from their responsibilities, whether on tariffs or whether on declaring war, and ultimately just kind of...

Highlight slides

PA's Pro-Growth Formula: Tax Cuts + Permit Reform✦ from: Pennsylvania has become a pro-growth state by cutting taxes seven times, dramatically speeding up permitting, and creating a money-back guarantee on permits, making it the only growing economy in the northeastern US.The Only Growing Economy in the Northeast✦ from: Pennsylvania has become a pro-growth state by cutting taxes seven times, dramatically speeding up permitting, and creating a money-back guarantee on permits, making it the only growing economy in the northeastern US.Trump's Tax Cuts for the Wealthy, Paid for by Medicaid Cuts✦ from: Trump's tax cut for the wealthy, paid for by slashing Medicaid, is dumb economic policy that shifts the burden onto struggling people, will shutter rural hospitals, and add costs to the middle class through higher private insurance premiums.Costs Shifted to the Middle Class✦ from: Trump's tax cut for the wealthy, paid for by slashing Medicaid, is dumb economic policy that shifts the burden onto struggling people, will shutter rural hospitals, and add costs to the middle class through higher private insurance premiums.The Case for Internal Debate✦ from: The Democratic Party must have a real debate about what it stands for and what it's willing to fight for. It should be the party of education, safety, economic opportunity, and freedom — the last of which Republicans have abandoned by trying to control what books kids read, what women do with their bodies, and how people raise their children.A Four-Pillar Platform✦ from: The Democratic Party must have a real debate about what it stands for and what it's willing to fight for. It should be the party of education, safety, economic opportunity, and freedom — the last of which Republicans have abandoned by trying to control what books kids read, what women do with their bodies, and how people raise their children.Republicans Abandoned Freedom✦ from: The Democratic Party must have a real debate about what it stands for and what it's willing to fight for. It should be the party of education, safety, economic opportunity, and freedom — the last of which Republicans have abandoned by trying to control what books kids read, what women do with their bodies, and how people raise their children.

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