You need frontier products in order to have frontier models, and for people to feel the magic of frontier models.

21:31without touching the technology when it's moving this quickly. At the same time, I think there's other things that we could be doing like so one thing that we um do a lot is actually working in public at internally within anthropic. And so in the early days when we had less product surfaces, there was a slack channel where everyone almost the entire company was testing early versions of Claude and trying

21:59different use cases. Like people were not calling them use cases, but you might be asking it to edit an essay or uh to come up with the right way to send this email. Like they were all different use cases, but we all worked in public. And then what you would see magically is different users or different different folks on the team coming up with an idea and then other people trying different

22:24variations of that idea and then within maybe 10 or so requests there was something magical or potentially a new use case that emerges. And I think there's a lot in not just individuals figuring out by themselves how to use this technology. I think we could be doing more to actually bring like that communal discovery when we do experimentation. Like experimentation is not always necessarily a individual sport.

22:55>> It's so interesting. Yeah. This idea that we're just we're not sure what this is capable of or what we could do with it and it takes all this poking around and people trying things, hearing what other people are trying to figure out what's possible. such an interesting I don't know technology or just like okay here's what oh I figured out it could do this thing what are you gonna do with

23:13that >> I think at a broad theme we know right we know that the models to write great essays or you can write long form writing but individual pain points of what can you actually solve with that and bring it to like a user level that people can use um I think is something that is more exploration or experimentation uh based >> following this thread you uh you oversee

23:36product for the labs team which uh is extremely cool. We've had Ben man on the podcast, Mike Griger who whom both work on labs now talk about labs. What is labs? What's come out of labs? Many people have heard of these things and how do they work that enables them to create such innovative ideas outside of even the core anthropic product team. The thesis of labs in many ways is

24:01identifying and pulling the thread on the thread of discontinuous large bets that might not be in the core road map and figuring out is there a there there and also what is the 10x 100x a thousandx of the there there and so for example uh things like cloud code um I think >> I've heard of [laughter] uh things like cloud code uh things like uh skills and most recently cloud design