Frontier products and frontier models are mutually dependent — Opus 4.5 would not have had its breakthrough moment without Claude Code, and Claude Code would not have had its adoption accelerated without Opus 4.5.

12:16interesting to hear that that was internally a big milestone. It almost feels like this confidence you all built that wow we could really ship a frontier model which is now today so not great if you compare it to what we've got today. What I always think about is Opus 45 which was and interestingly like a year later also during winter break when everyone was home able to code. Uh was

12:37that another big milestone? >> Yeah. Um Opus 45 was definitely another large moment. I think what was magic about magical about Opus 45 is we also now not just had a model but a vehicle which is like a great product experience like cloud code. Um one thing we say a lot on the team is you need frontier products in order to have frontier models and for people to feel the magic

13:06of frontier models. And I think you know we felt the magic of cloud code for very for for uh for many months before that. Uh but the fact that the model essentially got to a level of intelligence where at a very broad level users can experience both frontier intelligence in new use cases allow it to run things end to end in an agent manner. I think that was the

13:35inflection. It was actually both. I I think Opus 45 wouldn't have had that moment without a product like Cloud Code and Cloud Code I think wouldn't have had that type of adoption accelerated without Opus45. >> So kind of speaking on on this on this thread uh Daario interestingly if you look back at all his predictions he's just like okay coding is going to be solved it 100% in like a year something

14:01like that. He kept talking about how we're going to do code like AI is going to do all our code. And I remember everyone uh being like, "There's no way. This is way too complicated. How is how is AI ever going to get really good at this very complex thing that humans do? No, this is going to be humans for a long time." He was completely right.