Individuals do matter in history. For the Union, Lincoln and Grant mattered beyond calculation. On the Confederate side, Lee extended the war long enough that emancipation became a Union war aim—in a perverse way, Lee furthered the cause of emancipation.

45:31history I think is ridiculous. Individuals really matter. For the United States, Lincoln and Grant matter beyond calculation-- ... in this, in this war. And on the Confederate side, if you take Lee out of the picture, the war doesn't last nearly as long as it does. In fact, we'll talk about this later probably, I think it could have ended early in the summer of 1862 with slavery still intact. I mean, in a perverse way,

45:56Lee furthers the cause of emancipation because he-- extends the war long enough that the United States says, "We have to do this. We've gotta get rid of slavery to defeat the rebels." - So, and also on the psychological side, Lincoln is a, this is a fascinating study because he, he carried deep depression all his life. - He had black, black moods in his life, yes, he did.

46:20- And so for somebody that has to go through an all-encompassing war, to be able to sort of survive through that, to think through that, without an education, without any acquired skill that enables him to be a commander-in-chief during a time of war. He's got nothing in the toolbox, and yet he steps up. - If you looked at his resume and Jefferson Davis's-- ... in 1860 and said, "Okay, here are the two guys who are gonna be your respective

46:54commanders-in-chief. Who do you want on your team?" Lincoln had no administrative experience beyond running a little law office. He had one two-year term in the House of Representatives in terms of national government. He had no military service to speak of, a little while in the Black Hawk War as a junior officer in the Black Hawk War. Didn't check any of the education boxes, as you said. Jefferson Davis was a graduate of

47:21West Point. He'd commanded more men in the war with Mexico than most of the men who commanded armies during the Civil War. He'd chaired the Senate Committee on Military Affairs. He'd been Secretary of War, a lot of administrative experience. He checked every box. Lincoln checked none of the boxes, and yet you got Lincoln as a commander-in-chief. It's really quite remarkable. He could listen to people that he thought knew more about something than he did. That's a

47:47quality that all of our presidents, to put it mildly, have not had. Lincoln did have that. He could listen. He could admit when he was wrong and change his mind about things, and he could put up with obnoxious behavior on the part of people that he thought might deliver the goods. And a perfect example of this is George Brinton McClellan, whom we'll talk about later, his young... who was