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15:13um you can be a multiple of yourself. >> It's amazing. >> yeah, and so >> think founders are more ambitious than they've ever been? >> They should be. >> Yes. >> Um if anything, like that's the number one thing that people should do is realize that like don't chase your success or my success. Like that was, you know, when we were coming up. Like >> right. >> the game done changed.

15:35>> [laughter] >> You know, like you actually you can't just do a SaaS thing. Like I you know, I was just doing an analysis on my pure SaaS and I was like, oh shoot, like you know, a pure like per seat SaaS thing, like not totally clear it will exist in another 5 or 10 years. Like it's perfectly fine as a wedge, but if you're doing that now in 2026, like you better

15:56hope that that's like a leap to some sort of moat around data or network effects or something else, right? Um and that's like you know, if you if we would time travel to like even 2 years ago, it's like SaaS was God, you know, like the 10 20X like next 12 months uh revenue multiple was like, you know, iron law. And like it's hard to believe it was

16:18like, oh yeah, no, that's not true at all now. >> Well, all this is you know, it's a related thing that I love is that code is no longer precious. >> Mhm. >> My god. >> That's like >> the things that we had to go through to get something shipped. And that's why you had to have this like sense that what you were making was important with

16:32a capital I. >> Oh, yeah. >> And that actually flies against the kind of beautiful truth we were just talking about because often earnestness isn't obviously important with a capital I. So you pursue things that seem important when most of the most important things actually start out seeming actually unimportant. >> I know you've been all over this with G stack and G brain and you know, when you

16:52started out to build those things, with the intention to like contribute to the community or just explore your interests? >> Oh, I was just messing around. Like, you know, uh what was it? I think Boris Cherny came on Light Cone podcast and I just felt like the urge to you know, and a bunch of our mutual friends, like all of them uh basically just started coding again and I was like, oh something's

17:12happening. I better start. And then initially it was just messing around. It's like, "Oh, I mean, what would it be like to do and like make an office hours?" >> Yeah. >> Um and then the craziest thing there was like we had just started um like recording all of our office hours, actually. And then I could I had like a few months of data, and there were like

17:34very clear things that um the YC partners used as like rhetorical devices or ways to like draw out like a step function in your ambition. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Um and then what's funny is I have this markdown file that is basically like the perfect script on how to advise founders to like increase their ambition. >> Yeah. >> And then I actually had to go into