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Audio · 2021-02-17 · 1h 47m · 12 moments

Community perspectives on Elastic vs AWS (Interview)

This week we're talking about the recent falling out between Elastic and AWS around the relicensing of Elasticsearch and Kibana. Like many in the community, we have been watching this very closely. Here's the tldr for context. On January 21st, Elastic posted a blog post sharing their concerns with Amazon/AWS misleading and confusing the community, saying "They have been doing things that we think are just NOT OK since 2015 and it has only gotten worse." This lead them to relicense Elasticsearch ✦ AI generated

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GUEST Paul DixGUEST Markus StenqvistGUEST Adam JacobGUEST Elastic (company blog)GUEST AWS (company blog)GUEST VM (Vicky) BrasseurGUEST ElasticGUEST AWSGUEST Manish Jain
01
Claim◆

AWS has been doing things that are 'not OK' toward the open-source community around Elasticsearch since 2015, and it has only gotten worse — which justified relicensing Elasticsearch and Kibana under a dual proprietary/SSPL license.

Elastic publicly accused AWS of misleading and confusing the open-source community around Elasticsearch since 2015, and cited this as the reason for relicensing Elasticsearch and Kibana under a dual proprietary/SSPL license.

transcript

Elastic (company blog): Elastic posted a blog post sharing their concerns with Amazon/AWS misleading and confusing the community, saying "They have been doing things that we think are just NOT OK since 2015 and it has only gotten worse." This lead them to relicense Elasticsearch and Kibana with a dual license, a proprietary license and the Sever Side Public License (SSPL).

rebuts · 1

02
Claim◆

AWS has been misleading and confusing the open-source community since 2015, and it has only gotten worse, which is why Elastic relicensed Elasticsearch and Kibana under a dual proprietary/SSPL license.

Elastic publicly accused AWS of misleading and confusing the community since 2015 and used this as justification for relicensing Elasticsearch and Kibana under a dual proprietary/SSPL license.

transcript

Elastic: On January 21st, Elastic posted a blog post sharing their concerns with Amazon/AWS misleading and confusing the community, saying "They have been doing things that we think are just NOT OK since 2015 and it has only gotten worse." This lead them to relicense Elasticsearch and Kibana with a dual license, a proprietary license and the Sever Side Public License (SSPL).

provides context · 1

03
Claim◆

AWS is stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch by creating and maintaining forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana based on the latest ALv2-licensed codebases.

AWS responded to Elastic's relicensing by announcing it would fork and maintain open-source (ALv2) versions of Elasticsearch and Kibana, framing this as protecting truly open source software.

transcript

AWS (company blog): AWS responded two days later stating that they are "stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch," and shared their plans to create and maintain forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana based on the latest ALv2-licensed codebases.

rebuts · 1

04
Claim◆

AWS is stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch by creating and maintaining forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana based on the latest ALv2-licensed codebases.

AWS responded to Elastic's relicensing by framing its own forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana, kept under the permissive ALv2 license, as the truly open-source path.

transcript

AWS: AWS responded two days later stating that they are "stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch," and shared their plans to create and maintain forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana based on the latest ALv2-licensed codebases.

rebuts · 1

06
Claim◆

Elasticsearch and Kibana are now business risks as a result of the licensing conflict between Elastic and AWS.

Drawing on 30 years in free and open source software, VM (Vicky) Brasseur argued in a widely referenced post that the Elastic/AWS licensing fallout has turned Elasticsearch and Kibana into genuine business risks for adopters.

transcript

VM (Vicky) Brasseur: VM (Vicky) Brasseur has been in free and open source software for 30 years and has been working with startups and enterprises doing open source & free software business strategy for quite a while now. We used Vicky's post titled "Elasticsearch and Kibana are now business risks" as a reference on this situation.

07
Prediction

Given the standoff between Elastic and AWS, MongoDB is the better bet going forward while Elastic is the worse one.

Paul Dix, CTO of InfluxData, shared his investment-style take on the dispute, saying he's 'long on Mongo and short on Elastic' amid the standoff with AWS.

transcript

Paul Dix: Paul Dix is the co-founder and CTO at InfluxData and shared his perspective on running an open source business, how InfluxData is innovating their commercial offering while having a permissive MIT licensed version of InfluxDB. Paul also shares his thoughts on the stand off between Elastic and AWS and why he's long on Mongo and short on Elastic.

08
Prediction

Given the standoff between Elastic and AWS, MongoDB is the better long-term bet compared to Elastic.

Paul Dix, drawing on his own experience running an open-source business at InfluxData, shared that he is optimistic about MongoDB's position but pessimistic about Elastic's amid the AWS dispute.

transcript

Paul Dix: Paul Dix is the co-founder and CTO at InfluxData and shared his perspective on running an open source business, how InfluxData is innovating their commercial offering while having a permissive MIT licensed version of InfluxDB. Paul also shares his thoughts on the stand off between Elastic and AWS and why he's long on Mongo and short on Elastic.

09
Context

Having personally gone through licensing and re-licensing challenges with Dgraph, Manish Jain brings firsthand relevant experience to evaluating Elastic's relicensing decision.

As founder and CTO of Dgraph Labs, Manish Jain had previously navigated his own company's licensing and re-licensing struggles, making him a fitting voice on Elastic's relicensing fight with AWS.

transcript

Manish Jain: Manish Jain is the founder and CTO at Dgraph Labs. We talked with Manish a little over two years ago on episode #322 about their challenges with licensing and re-licensing Dgraph — so, we thought it would fitting to get him on this episode.

10
Mechanism

Large cloud providers like AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud act as a humongous marketing funnel that benefits open source businesses such as Mongo and Elastic.

Adam Jacob argued that big cloud providers effectively serve as a massive marketing funnel that drives business to open-source companies like MongoDB and Elastic, shaping how open-source business models work.

transcript

Adam Jacob: We pulled a segment from that episode where we talk about business models and how they correlate to open source business models, and how from Adam's perspective…the AWS's, the Azure's and the Google Clouds of the world provide a humongous marketing funnel for open source businesses like Mongo and Elastic.

11
Mechanism

The big cloud providers like AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud act as a humongous marketing funnel for open source businesses such as MongoDB and Elastic.

Adam Jacob argued that hyperscale clouds hosting open-source software actually generate a massive marketing funnel that benefits companies like Mongo and Elastic rather than purely harming them.

transcript

Adam Jacob: We pulled a segment from that episode where we talk about business models and how they correlate to open source business models, and how from Adam's perspective…the AWS's, the Azure's and the Google Clouds of the world provide a humongous marketing funnel for open source businesses like Mongo and Elastic.

12
Claim

The Elastic/AWS licensing conflict and resulting fork have turned Elasticsearch and Kibana into business risks for companies that rely on them.

Vicky Brasseur, drawing on 30 years in open source business strategy, wrote that the Elastic/AWS licensing conflict and resulting fork make Elasticsearch and Kibana risky choices for businesses to depend on.

transcript

VM (Vicky) Brasseur: VM (Vicky) Brasseur has been in free and open source software for 30 years and has been working with startups and enterprises doing open source & free software business strategy for quite a while now. We used Vicky's post titled “Elasticsearch and Kibana are now business risks” as a reference on this situation.

Highlight slides
AWS Forks Elasticsearch and Kibana✦ from: AWS is stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch by creating and maintaining forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana based on the latest ALv2-licensed codebases.Elastic Accuses AWS of Misleading Community✦ from: AWS has been misleading and confusing the open-source community since 2015, and it has only gotten worse, which is why Elastic relicensed Elasticsearch and Kibana under a dual proprietary/SSPL license.Elastic Accuses AWS of Misleading Open-Source Community✦ from: AWS has been doing things that are 'not OK' toward the open-source community around Elasticsearch since 2015, and it has only gotten worse — which justified relicensing Elasticsearch and Kibana under a dual proprietary/SSPL license.Elasticsearch & Kibana: A New Business Risk✦ from: Elasticsearch and Kibana are now business risks as a result of the licensing conflict between Elastic and AWS.AWS Forks Elasticsearch and Kibana✦ from: AWS is stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch by creating and maintaining forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana based on the latest ALv2-licensed codebases.Why It Matters✦ from: Elasticsearch and Kibana are now business risks as a result of the licensing conflict between Elastic and AWS.Why ALv2 Matters✦ from: AWS is stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch by creating and maintaining forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana based on the latest ALv2-licensed codebases.Why It Matters✦ from: AWS is stepping up for a truly open source Elasticsearch by creating and maintaining forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana based on the latest ALv2-licensed codebases.Response: Relicensing Elasticsearch and Kibana✦ from: AWS has been doing things that are 'not OK' toward the open-source community around Elasticsearch since 2015, and it has only gotten worse — which justified relicensing Elasticsearch and Kibana under a dual proprietary/SSPL license.Elastic's Response: Relicensing✦ from: AWS has been misleading and confusing the open-source community since 2015, and it has only gotten worse, which is why Elastic relicensed Elasticsearch and Kibana under a dual proprietary/SSPL license.
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