Refusing deals purely over percentage ownership is the biggest mistake: passing on Eleven Labs, Granola, StarCloud and Fractile solely because we'd only get 1–2% cost us 'hundreds and hundreds of millions of lost returns,' so when the right founder appears you take whatever ownership you can get.

29:00I can look at Granola. And StarCloud, Fractile could have done them all, but would have had 1 to 2%. And all of them we turned down purely for ownership. And that is hundreds and hundreds of millions of lost returns for ownership. I've never thought about that. [laughter] >> I I I mean, all things being equal, right, like um I'm not a I'm a capitalist, right? So, all things being

29:29equal, like I'd love to own more upfront than less, >> but it wouldn't be the reason you turned it down. >> I've never I've never turned it down. Never. And you know, Mikey, I wanted to give him every last scent, right? And you reached a point where he said, "Look, that is the dilution I'm willing to take. I'm not willing to take another iota of dilution." And we gave

29:54him what we gave him, which was literally every single scent in his first round. We showed it to other people, by the way. I mean, I showed it to you. >> Thanks, David. We weren't going to bring it home. >> Um, and then when Matrix led, uh, which was not, it wasn't a popular round. Lots of people said no in that round. We asked every last scent. But would I have

30:17said no to Mikey because of percentage ownership? Like when you meet the right people and you're all in, it's like you get what you get. >> And so you will do the one to 2%. And you'll take it even though you can't size up in next rounds. >> Well, you know, again, I think pro rata is almost like the original sin, but if others have it, like I I don't think