People who want to build utopias are fundamentally anti-human because they love the idea of heaven more than the reality of Earth — they like humans apart from the bad bits, but you have to accept human flaws, including your own, to be truly human.

Houser argues that utopian perfectionists are anti-human because they reject the flawed, dirty, ugly parts of humanity. He advocates for accepting that all people have both good and evil, echoing Solzhenitsyn's line about the line between good and evil running through every heart, and that forgetting this duality is when we get into real trouble. ✦ AI generated

Dan Houser · Lex Fridman · 2025-10-31 · original ↗

I think there's two processes. I think there's the power and money corrupted him in the end as well, but I also think that there's something fundamentally anti-human about people who want to build utopias or paradises or heavens, because what they're saying is, I like humans apart from the bad bits. And I mean, I try to be a pluralist who likes all kinds of people. And I think there's a side where people are, you know, hideous perfectionists want to get rid of, you know, the rough and the nasty and the ugly and the dirty. And that's a huge side of us. So I worry about those people. I find them... it's a different kind of sociopathic behavior. I like humans apart from the bad bits. ... And then there's flaws. And I think we're all flawed and we can really try to be better people. But we still have to accept that we're flawed and we're not perfect. And we have to accept that in other people. And I think when we do that, we're more human. And that's probably usually the right course. ... And all of us have that line. Yes, and I think when you forget about that line, then you get in real trouble. When you forget there's good and evil in you, in others, in the world, that there is both good and evil, and there's certainly good, and that all we can try to do is be better.

verbatim transcript · starts at 68:30