Frontier models have already made it materially easier to hack into virtually anything, because they were specifically trained to possess the subject matter expertise for hacking, collapsing the barrier that previously required a subject-matter expert willing to risk prosecution.

0:42>> I think it's really strange that they're not letting blue teams get access to these tools, but >> Awesome. Hey, thank you so much for joining us. We've got Fas and Dylan here from Truffle and Socket. It's great to have you guys on. This has been probably one of the most interesting weeks, if not the most interesting week in cyber security. Uh not because of the Black

1:03Hat conference, which is usually the cause, but because we've now seen several instances where models from not just one provider, are actively escaping their cages, going out on the internet, and doing pretty nasty things. And I think Dylan, three months ago, I remember a blog post we uh we lightly collaborated on together. Um and and you had found a number of these issues with earlier models, right, that were less

1:27sophisticated. >> Yeah. We looked at Opus 4.6 and some of the other Frontier models at the time, given the models a very simple task. There was a barrier which prevented the model from accomplishing the task unless it went and committed a felony and hacked into a system to accomplish the task, but it wasn't instructed to do so. And we found more often than not it would do the SQL injection, it would

1:46commit the felony and it would do what it needed to do to accomplish the task. I think when it comes to alignment issues, no one needs to worry about these models making it materially easy to build nuclear weapons because you need to procure file material to do that. It's not it's not going to make it easier to build weapons. Everyone needs to worry about these models making it

2:06materially easier to hack into things. The bar previously was just subject matter expertise and now the models have the subject matter expertise. They were specifically trained to have the subject matter expertise and they're just making it materially easier to hack into just about anything that you can think of using the fundamentals that we've been talking about for years, but previously it required a subject matter expert to

2:28uh risk like going to jail for hacking things. >> Defcon was always famous for people for attendees getting arrested at the conference. Right. >> That's that's absolutely right. But that was I mean that was a barrier, right? for better or worse, like that prevented the subject matter expertise from hacking into things because they were worried about being prosecuted. Um the bar has now fallen to just asking the

2:46model which has specifically been trained to hack into things to hack into things. Um so so that's a concern. And then the other concern is when they're incredibly [snorts] goal-oriented to accomplish tasks. >> Um and and one of the tools at their disposal is cyber security expertise. Um they will do the path of least resistance to accomplish the task and that includes drawing on their cyber security expertise. Well, and it seems

3:07like and you know the classic the classic the classic saying is that don't pick the lock if the door is open, right? I think that's uh from the very beginning of of of the security world. Um, so it's always been sort of like to to to to to go in level of difficulty from easiest to most difficult. And it seemed like initially these tools had a very finite scope of of techniques that