DNA testing in 1999 and subsequent archival and archaeological research established the overwhelming historical consensus that Jefferson fathered children with his enslaved half-sister-in-law Sally Hemings, whom he had begun a sexual relationship with when she was fourteen and he was forty-four.

53:06very strong likelihood that it was and then there's been very detailed research by uh the great scholar of the Hemings um family and of the relationship of Sally Hemings to Thomas Jefferson and at Gordon Reed and she did detailed analysis of of the Jefferson archives which are very copious >> and she demonstrated that Jefferson had been present at Montichello nine months before the birth of every one of Sally

53:31Hemings's children. So again that's quite substantive evidence. Um and then in 2017 um archaeologists working at Montichello excavated Sally's room complete with original hearth fireplace and floors and it's directly adjacent to Jefferson's bedroom. >> Right. >> So there are still um Jefferson scholars who who doubt it. But I would say the overwhelming consensus now of historians is that um Jefferson had kept Sally Hemings as his mistress. That Madison

54:02Hemings and her other children were Jefferson's children. Um and this has been accepted by the Thomas Jefferson Foundation which runs Montichello. So that effectively I think is case proven. So let's get into their relationship. So obviously there's so much I mean h it's impossible to ever know the truth about anybody's relationship I suppose even your own but um their relationship is surely I mean the fact that they are as

54:28it were master and slave can never be separated from the reality of their relationship. No, it is obviously massively coercive. I mean I mean Jefferson owns Sally as property and as you said, you know, he's in his mid-4s when they begin their affair and she's, you know, in her mid- teens. So in every way there is a colossal power imbalance there. So I I suppose the question that

54:55can't be answered which people must be wondering is why Sally agreed to go back with Jefferson to Virginia and to slavery. So was it homesickness, you know, for the place that she'd grown up in for her her mother for >> Yeah. >> the rest of her family? Nervousness at at starting a new life in France? I mean, maybe she'd been in France a few years, but I mean a big ask perhaps.