Being canceled is a choice. If you're still out there, the haters kind of give up.

9:19canceled and retreat from the public eye, but I think if you're still out there, then at some point honestly the haters kind of give up. They're like, all right, I guess I can't we can't do anything to this guy. Let's go to the next guy. >> Yeah. There's this great book, So You Think You've Been Shamed, and it chronicles the stories of a number of people who've

9:37gotten canceled over the past like 15 years and that's basically the the takeaway is that the the people can't who are truly canceled are the ones who shut up. They're the ones who retreat. But the ones who just keep going and you know, it's it's forgettable. I mean, there's so many people, you know, Brian Johnson is shortly like revived their image or just presented a whole new image. People just

9:57forget the thing that they were, you know, almost canceled. >> I I will say the mental aspect of it is pretty difficult. >> I was going to ask that next. >> Yeah, because like I think that um you know, this story has been told a trillion times about like in the ancestral village, uh if if you become an outcast, that's pretty deadly. Like you can literally die. You can't find food. And so our

10:19limbic system when you get you get this massive reaction online, you're kind of in this fight or flight and it could you know, it could really affect you. Like you can't sleep. You uh some people can't eat and it's it could get be it could be really damaging. But I think again, exposure therapy helps a lot. Like the first one is really hard, the second one is like, ah, it'll blow over.

10:44Um but but also having good principles. Like I think acting on principles is important. Like I you know, no matter what people think of what's happening at Anthropic, it's absolutely true, I think in my mind, that they believe everything they're doing. They believe in safety. They believe in their mission. And I think that gives them incredible strength to keep going in um and obviously like often times principles and

11:17um self-interest coincide and you can and that's that's a good thing, but you can ascribe what they're doing to some kind of cynical marketing ploy, but it the strength that they have is is based on their principles and that that really keeps them going. >> Yeah. Yeah. The I mean earlier on you were alluding to the stakes are are really high with these What advice might you have for an