Being canceled is a choice — if you stay in the game and don't retreat, the haters eventually give up.

8:15>> but if you're a good poster and you can get away with it. >> He can post his way to presidency for sure. >> Yeah. The um You is it funny you mention the intern thing because I remember that but I also remember forgetting it too. And a lot of people say, oh, what if I say the wrong thing? What if I get my company into into trouble and in some

8:32sort of, you know, controversy or scandal? You know, is it just that attention spans are so short that it's just like the the the next situation? What what do you say about that? >> Well, well, you need to I I think it's deadly. Like PR can be PR crisis can be deadly uh if you retreat afterwards. Like if you're not in the news and I think the

8:53thing about I think Trump, Elon, et cetera is that there is the next thing. And by the way, the next thing could be worse. But [laughter] just but just the fact that you're still in there, you're still in the game, people will be like, oh, we like oh, this this this guy's unkillable, uncancelable. >> Yeah. >> And so it it Being canceled is a choice. Uh so you can you can choose to get

9:19canceled and retreat from the public eye, but I think if you're still out there, then at some point honestly the haters kind of give up. They're like, all right, I guess I can't we can't do anything to this guy. Let's go to the next guy. >> Yeah. There's this great book, So You Think You've Been Shamed, and it chronicles the stories of a number of people who've

9:37gotten canceled over the past like 15 years and that's basically the the takeaway is that the the people can't who are truly canceled are the ones who shut up. They're the ones who retreat. But the ones who just keep going and you know, it's it's forgettable. I mean, there's so many people, you know, Brian Johnson is shortly like revived their image or just presented a whole new image. People just

9:57forget the thing that they were, you know, almost canceled. >> I I will say the mental aspect of it is pretty difficult. >> I was going to ask that next. >> Yeah, because like I think that um you know, this story has been told a trillion times about like in the ancestral village, uh if if you become an outcast, that's pretty deadly. Like you can literally die. You can't find food. And so our

10:19limbic system when you get you get this massive reaction online, you're kind of in this fight or flight and it could you know, it could really affect you. Like you can't sleep. You uh some people can't eat and it's it could get be it could be really damaging. But I think again, exposure therapy helps a lot. Like the first one is really hard, the second one is like, ah, it'll blow over.

10:44Um but but also having good principles. Like I think acting on principles is important. Like I you know, no matter what people think of what's happening at Anthropic, it's absolutely true, I think in my mind, that they believe everything they're doing. They believe in safety. They believe in their mission. And I think that gives them incredible strength to keep going in um and obviously like often times principles and