Banning US data-labeling companies from selling training data to China is not worth it, because data is largely a commodity, China can recreate these datasets with its own enormous supply of PhDs and talent, and restrictions would just invite reciprocal trade actions like rare-earth export bans.

66:41etc. Top six AI labs in China, according to this report, uh are spending $500 million a year buying what Forbes calls secret sauce, uh PhD written content, reinforcement learning, knowledge pipelines, uh all that kind of great stuff. I have investments in a couple of these companies, including Micro One. The founder of Micro One didn't participate in selling to China. He made that decision. effects. What do you

67:08think here about this new wrinkle in terms of really the secret sauce behind a lot of these models is the data? We've run out of uh open data on the web. Obviously, we talked last week about the books being uh you know having the spines taken off of them and scanned in. I mean, people are looking for data. Mira, micro one, all these companies are providing it. Should they be providing

67:31the same data and selling it to Chinese open source companies or not? Well, look, I think we got to decide what our objective is here. Are we trying to just get in like a full-blown economic war with China? Are we just trying to prevent all of our companies from doing business over there? If that's our objective, then you can take that position. Historically, the rules have been that you want to be careful about

67:53technology transfer of technology that has a dual use, right? That it has a military application. My sense of data is that it's largely a commodity. I mean, data labeling certainly is. If you basically tell them that they can't use data labeling, I guarantee you there's no shortage of labor in China that they can use to do the data labeling. In fact, they probably are. What I'm saying

68:18is there's a lot of ways to get this data. So look, if we basically ban these companies from selling to China, we should expect reciprocal actions taken by China to ban companies over there selling to us. Maybe rare earths. These two countries are not completely independent of each other. By the way, I want us to be as independent and sovereign as possible. I don't want to have any dependencies. No dependencies.

68:45>> But we still at this moment in time do have some dependencies. So I think you have to ask the question is this data really proprietary? Does it have a dual use? Does it have a military application? >> Yeah, I don't think it has military. It's definitely not data labeling. This is like hiring PhDs, hiring super professionals to, you know, create unique data sets. So it's >> China can do that too and I guarantee

69:07you they are. I don't think this is going to give us a decisive advantage in the AI race. It's going to annoy it's going to create annoyance. It's going to create friction. and how bad do you want our relationship with them to be? Do you want to risk starting another trade war? Look, I'm not against restrictions when I think they're going to pack a punch. For example, I'm really glad that the

69:26first Trump administration limited the export of EUV lithography machines to China. You know, that was all the way back, I think, in 2019. So, that was a really important decision. And so, look, I think targeted strategic controls make sense. I would just make sure that this one actually meets that bar. >> Brad, any thoughts here on this open-source catchup, the data being sold to China and our adversaries? Are you