Audio · 2025-04-17 · 3h 35m · 12 moments

#465 – Robert Rodriguez: Sin City, Desperado, El Mariachi, Alita, and Filmmaking

Robert Rodriguez is a legendary filmmaker and creator of Sin City, El Mariachi, Desperado, Spy Kids, Machete, From Dusk Till Dawn, Alita: Battle Angel, The Faculty, and his newest venture Brass Knuckle Films. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep465-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/robert-rodriguez-transcript CONTACT LEX: Feedback – give feedba ✦ AI generated

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GUEST Robert Rodriguez

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Anecdote◆

When things go wrong on set — explosions misfire, sets catch fire, actors miss marks — the real creative work begins: you roll up your sleeves, find the silver lining, and the result is often better than what you planned.

Rodriguez describes how accidents on Desperado, From Dusk Till Dawn, and Grindhouse created iconic moments — the slow-motion explosion walk, the charred bar set — that were better than what was planned, and argues that the whole filmmaking process is about watching your plan fall apart and then creatively solving the problems.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: If something happens, it's just meant to be that way. And I got used to doing things in one take and just living with it, didn't bother me. ... You come up with your plan of what you want to accomplish. That's like your script. Then you go scout your location and figure out what your project's going to be. And you go try to make it as bulletproof as possible. Then you go to do your project. And just like with our movies, you watch it all fall apart. You watch this thing blow up. You watch this thing not work. Everything just falls apart in front of your face. Then that's when you roll up your sleeves and creatively figure out a way around it. You turn chicken shit into chicken salad, and by the end, you have a result that's better than what you sought out.

supports · 1

Anecdote◆

When things go wrong on set, you have to roll with it and look for the blessing hidden in the mistake — the accident often gives you something better than you planned.

Robert Rodriguez recounts how the iconic slow-motion explosion walkaway in Desperado was an accident — the fireball was small and fast, so he shot it in slow motion to make it last longer. He also describes how the front of the From Dusk Till Dawn bar set accidentally caught fire on the first shot, but he kept shooting because the charred look was better than the clean set, creating an apocalyptic feel that improved the movie.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: It was an accident. It was just supposed to be, it was just two grenades, not a nuclear bomb. It throws them over the side and I just wanted like some body parts or, you know, something to fly up some shrapnel... My fix guy was so ragged, running so ragged. We get to there and I go, do you have any body parts and stuff we can throw up or something you can shoot up. Pat, I didn't realize it's so high to get past that second floor. He's like, no, I don't. I can give you a fireball. I can give you a nice, you know, fireball with propane, but it burns away really quick. Like how fast? Like that, but it'll be big and orange. Okay, we'll shoot it in slow motion so it lasts a little longer because it just goes poof... A lot of times, I've just learned that if something happens, it's just meant to be that way. And I got used to doing things in one take and just living with it, didn't bother me... The whole front of that, which is foam, is catching on fire. And I cut just before you see that it's on fire. And that was the first shot at that bar, because we weren't going to start shooting the other stuff till night. So the first shot is that, and the set's ruined, burned to a crisp. The neon lights blew up. So we couldn't even shoot. Cheech goes, well, I guess I'm not doing my speech tonight. But right away, this is what happens. My first AD, Doug Arnikowski comes over to me and I go over to him. Guys came out with the fire hoses. The fire hoses weren't even adding water. It was like the thing was just scorching. The whole production design team was in tears because they had just spent weeks building this thing and it was up in smoke and charred. I said, let's just keep shooting. Let's just keep shooting because it looks really kind of cool like this. Yeah, they're going to have to come repair it and we'll have to come back, but it's all black and charred. That's why that whole scene with George Clooney and Cheech and the building's black. We didn't go over there and touch that up. That's real flame that burned. And it ended up looking great. So sometimes you got to roll with it and then look to get the blessing you get because of this mistake.

gives example · 1

Claim◆

Failure is a gift — you must sift through the ashes of a failed project to find the key to your next success, because if you followed your instinct to do it, you were on the right track even if you didn't get the result you wanted.

Rodriguez tells the story of Four Rooms — a financial flop — and how from its ashes came Spy Kids and Sin City, two of his biggest successes. He argues that instinctual choices are worth following even when the result fails, because the universe is pushing you toward something bigger.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: Sometimes the only way across the river is to slip on the first two rocks. You fail, you have to really sift through, it's like the silver lining, but I call it, sift through the ashes of your failure and you'll find the key to your next success is in there. But if you're not looking for it, you don't find it. ... I made a movie called Four Rooms. I didn't make any money, right? ... I need to really sift through the ashes. And if I look through the ashes of that failure, I find 2 keys to my biggest successes in there. ... Spy Kids. ... Sin City. Those are by far two of my biggest successes that came directly from that failure.

supports · 1

Claim

Failure is not a dead end — you have to sift through the ashes of your failure to find the key to your next success, and if you're not looking for it, you don't find it.

Rodriguez tells the story of Four Rooms, an anthology film that flopped financially. Despite the failure, he sifted through it and found two keys to his biggest successes: Spy Kids (from the idea of kids as spies, born from the kids-in-a-room setup) and Sin City (from wanting to make an anthology work with a single director telling three stories). He argues that following your instinct is always right — if it fails, the result is something bigger you don't yet have the vision for.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: I made a movie called Four Rooms. I didn't make any money, right? When Quentin asked me, hey, would you want to make a movie with me and two other filmmakers? It's an anthology. It's on New Year's Eve. It's in a hotel. You have to use the bellhop. We're not going to know what each other's making. And we make it and we put it together. My hand went up right away, just instinctually saying, that sounds, yeah, I'll do that... I make that movie. It bombs. Now, I could feel real bad about that, but if you really think about it, you go, well, why did I sign up for it? Did I raise my hand because I thought it was going to go be this big financial success? No, I did it to work with my friends, to do something creative, to try something. But that's still not good enough. I need to really sift through the ashes. And if I look through the ashes of that failure, I find 2 keys to my biggest successes in there. While I was on the set, they said it has to be New Year's. So I thought, I'm just going to do like bed. I'm going to have two little kids that are running around in this room. And we have to use the bellhop as a babysitter. Well, it's New Year's. Let's dress everybody in tuxedos because it's New Year's. They're all going to go out, but the parents leave without them. When I saw Antonio and his wife, I thought, wow, they look like a really cool international spy couple. What if they were spies? And these two little kids, one of them keeps falling asleep on the set. He's so young. They barely tie their shoes. They don't know parents are spies. They have to go save them. Okay, there's five of those movies now, right? The other one was, I really love making short films. I really want this anthology thing to work. What if it's three stories, like a 3X director, not four? Same director, not four different directors. I'm going to try it again. Why on earth would I try it again? Well, because I'd already done one and figured out how I could do it better, and that's Sin City. Those are by far two of my biggest successes that came directly from that failure. So I always say, follow your instinct. If it doesn't work, just go. Sometimes the only way across the river is to slip on the first two rocks. So where's the key in the ashes of the failure? Because if I had an instinct, that means I was on the right track. I didn't get the result I want. That's because the result might be something way bigger that I don't have the vision for and the universe is pushing me that way.

gives example · 2supports · 1

Claim

You should commit to making a body of work like an artist, not obsess over each individual project — some will over-perform, some will under-perform, and it's not for you to decide which are the masterpieces.

Rodriguez describes how judging a project by its immediate reception can be misleading — using John Carpenter's The Thing as an example of a film that was panned and later became a classic — and advises creators to keep producing without letting any single outcome shake them.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: So if you have some kind of failure on something, don't let it knock you down. Just go, Maybe in 10 years they'll think it's great. I'm just going to commit to making a body of work, a body of work. Some will succeed, some will over-perform, some will under-perform. It's not your job. You just want to be a creative person. Just create, stop thinking about movie per movie and worrying so much about each one, or project to project if you're a business person. Just commit to making a body of work like an artist would do. And you don't know what the masterpieces are going to be or which someone's going to come and say, Oh, that one that bombed, there is some really creative stuff in there. And it's not for you to decide.

explains mechanism · 1supports · 1

Claim

Commit to making a body of work like an artist, not worrying about any single project — some will succeed, some will over-perform, some will under-perform, and it's not for you to decide which are the masterpieces.

Rodriguez advises creators to stop worrying about each individual project and instead commit to making a body of work. He cites John Carpenter's The Thing, which bombed on release but became a classic 10 years later, to argue that creators don't know what the masterpieces will be — it's not for them to decide.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: Think of like The Thing by John Carpenter. You put that movie out the same weekend as ET. That thing bombed. Critics were calling it pornography because of all the weird special effects and audiences didn't go either. And he thought he made a great movie. So it makes you question your instincts. Well, 10 years later, turns out, oh, it's a classic. So sometimes it takes the audience a while. So if you have some kind of failure on something, don't let it knock you down. Just go, Maybe in 10 years they'll think it's great. I'm just going to commit to making a body of work, a body of work. Some will succeed, some will over-perform, some will under-perform. It's not your job. You just want to be a creative person. Just create, stop thinking about movie per movie and worrying so much about each one, or project to project if you're a business person. Just commit to making a body of work like an artist would do. And you don't know what the masterpieces are going to be or which someone's going to come and say, Oh, that one that bombed, there is some really creative stuff in there. And it's not for you to decide. You just go and do it.

Mechanism◆

Write your script backwards from what you have access to — look at everything you have available (locations, props, animals, people) and build the story around those resources, which gives you production value for free.

Rodriguez explains his method of writing scripts by first looking at what he has access to — a pit bull, a turtle, a friend's bus, a cousin's bar, a ranch — and then writing the story to incorporate those elements. He calls this writing backwards, and it gave his low-budget films production value that they wouldn't otherwise have had. He also describes how he used index cards to prompt himself with questions, saying the answers come from somewhere beyond his own mind.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: I said, I looked at everything I had. What do I have? We have a pit bull. We have a turtle. We've got a bus that Carlos's cousin owns. His cousin, his brother has a, brother-in-law has a bar, and he owns a ranch. So the bad guy lives at the ranch. The fight scene's going to be in the bar. He's going to hit a bus at one point. He's going to — the girl's going to have a dog and a turtle's going to cross the road. It gives you all this production value. So you write backwards... I write on index cards and I carry one of these a little packet of index cards. I keep one always in my bag. And I smile when I run across it because I go, I've made $1,000,000 with one of these before. You know, it's like this is the key to your next success, cards. Because you know, when you go see a therapist, you're not going to them for the answers. You're going to them for the questions. You've got the answers inside, what you don't have are the questions. A lot of times we ask ourselves very unempowering questions, like, why am I such a loser? You know, I can think of 10 answers right now. But if you could, but if you go, what three things can I do today that'll not just change my life, but everyone around me? Take steps to that. Take out your cards and start writing them down. You won't come up with three. You'll come up with 15.

gives example · 1

Mechanism

I write scripts backwards by looking at what I have access to — locations, props, animals, people — and then building the story around those resources, which gives you production value for free and forces creative solutions.

Rodriguez explains his method for writing El Mariachi: he listed everything available (a pit bull, a turtle, a bus, a bar, a ranch) and wrote the story to use each one. He extends this to Bedhead, where the capabilities of a wind-up film camera — slow motion, reverse photography, stop motion — dictated the story of a girl with special powers.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: I looked at everything I had. What do I have? We have a pit bull. We have a turtle. We've got a bus that Carlos's cousin owns. His cousin, his brother has a, brother-in-law has a bar, and he owns a ranch. So the bad guy lives at the ranch. The fight scene's going to be in the bar. He's going to hit a bus at one point. He's going to... The girl's going to have a dog and a turtle's going to cross the road. It gives you all this production value. So you write backwards.

Definition

Creativity is 90% of any job — the technical part is only 10% — and a truly creative person can jump from one discipline to another and do superior work than most technicians because creativity is the same force across all mediums.

Rodriguez describes how he realized after reading creativity books that creativity is 90% of any job — whether composing music (which he does without knowing how to read or write it), cinematography, editing, or writing. He believes one creative person can jump across disciplines and outperform technicians because the creative spirit is the same. He also describes his belief in a 'creative spirit' — an external force that flows through artists who keep their ego out of the way.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: I was like, how is it that I'm the production designer, the composer, which I don't even know how to read or write music, and I'm writing orchestral score, and I'm doing the editing, and I'm doing the cinematography. I haven't been trained for any of these. I never went to school for these specifically. Must be something about creativity. So I went on Amazon, it's 2002. I look up creative books. Anything that has creativity in the title, I just ordered it. And I've got a bunch of books on creativity. And I was reading them through. One of them was like, really speaking to me. Yeah, that's it. That's the process. And then it says gels and mediums. And I'm like, oh, this is a book specifically about painting. But it applies to music, editing, cinematography, writing, it's all the same. So that's when I realized that creativity is 90% of any of those jobs. The technical part of setting up the cameras, of writing a script in format, or reading or writing music, that's 10% of that. How many musicians don't read or write music and they're fantastic? It's because 90%, what they do is creative. Now, I believe that same person even if they only do music, could literally jump from job to job creativity and do a superior job than most technicians... I call it the creative spirit. There's a spirit assigned to all of us that's creative that doesn't have hands. It needs you to pick up the pen, pull out the cards. And then when you start getting in the flow and you're like, Whoa, it's riding, that's that. And if you can have that mindset, you take your ego out of it and go, All I need to do is be a good conduit for this thing, be a good pipe and it's gonna come through.

Claim

Creativity is 90% of every artistic job — the technical part is only 10% — so a truly creative person can jump between disciplines (writing, music, cinematography, editing) and do a superior job to most technicians, because the same creative spirit drives all of them.

Rodriguez describes how he realized he could compose orchestral scores without knowing how to read music, and that the same creative process applies to writing, directing, editing, and cinematography. He argues that the technical part of any job is small and learnable, while creativity is the universal skill.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: Creativity is 90% of any of those jobs. The technical part of setting up the cameras, of writing a script in format, or reading or writing music, that's 10% of that. How many musicians don't read or write music and they're fantastic? It's because 90%, what they do is creative. Now, I believe that same person, even if they only do music, could literally jump from job to job creativity and do a superior job than most technicians.

Claim

The creative spirit is something that flows through you — you don't generate ideas, you just have to be a good conduit by taking action, picking up the pen, and getting your ego out of the way.

Rodriguez describes his belief in a 'creative spirit' — a force that has endless ideas but needs human hands to manifest them. He draws on examples from Keith Richards and Jimmy Vaughan, and his own experience with daily cartooning, to argue that waiting for inspiration is a trap: you must start working and the ideas will come through you.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: I call it the creative spirit. There's a spirit assigned to all of us that's creative that doesn't have hands. It needs you to pick up the pen, pull out the cards. And then when you start getting in the flow and you're like, Whoa, it's riding, that's that. And if you can have that mindset, you take your ego out of it and go, All I need to do is be a good conduit for this thing, be a good pipe and it's gonna come through. ... If it's not coming out, it's because I'm blocking it. ... this thing's got endless ideas.

Example◆

Don't wait until you're ready — stop aspiring and just start, because you figure it out day by day as every challenge gets thrown at you, and most people never start because they're waiting to feel ready.

Rodriguez urges aspiring filmmakers to stop calling themselves aspiring and just jump in before they're ready. He explains that he didn't feel ready to make El Mariachi until the last few days of filming, and that he figured out every challenge day by day. He also describes the technical ingenuity of shooting El Mariachi without sync sound — recording audio separately, syncing it by hand, and cutting away to cover mismatched lip movements, which created an accidental fast-cutting style.

transcript

Robert Rodriguez: I would meet a lot of people who introduce themselves as aspiring. I'm an aspiring filmmaker, and I wonder, what would you tell an aspiring filmmaker? I'd say, Stop aspiring. Because if you call yourself that, you are that, and you're always going to feel like you're not ready. You just jump in before you're ready. I didn't feel like I was ready to do mariachi until I was probably in my last few days of filming. You became ready as you went. You didn't know all that stuff. I couldn't have figured all that out in advance... So I had a camera that, it was not a sync camera. And the thing was, it was so loud, I would have had to blimp the shit out of it if I didn't have a blimp. And then I would have needed a sound guy... I would do the whole scene, now we get the sound, bring the mic in close like that. Say it again. Lex, Friedman, Austin, Texas. That'll probably sync. Now, if you were going on and on, there's a place where it'd go out of sync. I hate rubbery lips, so I would cut away to the dog or to the knife or to the girl, and then I'd cut back when you were back in sync. And since these were non-actors, they say everything the same way each time. They would say their line, just like they weren't performing it to where they didn't remember how they performed the thing before. They were just talking in their own rhythm. So a lot of the times it's... Anytime you see anyone on camera talking, they're in sync with themselves. And as soon as it cuts away, they're out of sync. And it created this really fast cutting style that I probably wouldn't have had on such a low budget movie, but it was the only way to keep things in sync.

supports · 1

Highlight slides

Filmmaking: Watching Your Plan Fall Apart✦ from: When things go wrong on set — explosions misfire, sets catch fire, actors miss marks — the real creative work begins: you roll up your sleeves, find the silver lining, and the result is often better than what you planned.The Accident That Made the Shot✦ from: When things go wrong on set, you have to roll with it and look for the blessing hidden in the mistake — the accident often gives you something better than you planned.Accidents Create Iconic Moments✦ from: When things go wrong on set — explosions misfire, sets catch fire, actors miss marks — the real creative work begins: you roll up your sleeves, find the silver lining, and the result is often better than what you planned.Keep Rolling When the Set Burns✦ from: When things go wrong on set, you have to roll with it and look for the blessing hidden in the mistake — the accident often gives you something better than you planned.Failure as a Gift✦ from: Failure is a gift — you must sift through the ashes of a failed project to find the key to your next success, because if you followed your instinct to do it, you were on the right track even if you didn't get the result you wanted.From Four Rooms to Spy Kids & Sin City✦ from: Failure is a gift — you must sift through the ashes of a failed project to find the key to your next success, because if you followed your instinct to do it, you were on the right track even if you didn't get the result you wanted.Write Backwards from What You Have✦ from: Write your script backwards from what you have access to — look at everything you have available (locations, props, animals, people) and build the story around those resources, which gives you production value for free.Index Cards as Question Prompts✦ from: Write your script backwards from what you have access to — look at everything you have available (locations, props, animals, people) and build the story around those resources, which gives you production value for free.Stop aspiring — start before you're ready✦ from: Don't wait until you're ready — stop aspiring and just start, because you figure it out day by day as every challenge gets thrown at you, and most people never start because they're waiting to feel ready.Limitations forced an accidental signature style✦ from: Don't wait until you're ready — stop aspiring and just start, because you figure it out day by day as every challenge gets thrown at you, and most people never start because they're waiting to feel ready.

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