#464 – Dave Smith: Israel, Ukraine, Epstein, Mossad, Conspiracies & Antisemitism

Dave Smith: Well, I think it comes, it all came from kind of the same central thesis, which is that the highest political value ought to be liberty. And that the government, by its very nature, is an instrument of force and tyranny, and that, therefore, the more government you have, the less liberty you have.

Dave Smith: And he's the one who coined the term insurgent math. 10 minus 2 equals 20. You know, it's like the more, the more you keep, I was just reading, I was rereading about this the other day because of the, you know, Trump's been bombing the Houthis in Yemen. ... every time you go in there, it's like, okay, you took out one target and then you took out three little girls and, a few, and every one of those little girls had brothers and uncles and fathers and, all of them just signed up to join the fight now ... your cure is making the patient more sick. So stop doing that and then let's see if maybe we could heal.

Dave Smith: I remember one time I was arguing with a Democrat guy on a SE Cup show. I used to be a contributor on her show. And we were arguing, and it was after a terrorist attack here in New York, a fairly minor one. It was like a guy like, I think he hit someone with his car and then jumped out with a gun, and then the cops lit him up and killed him. This is like back in 2017, I think. And He claimed to be ISIS inspired. I don't remember if there was like a direct connection or not. But they were, at the time, they were like, doesn't this mean we got to step up the war in Iraq or in Syria where ISIS's stronghold is? And I remember the guy saying to me, he goes, you know, I went off on how these wars have been disasters. And he goes, yeah, but Dave, what you're saying here is we're supposed to do nothing. this just happened and now we're supposed to do nothing. And so even though this guy had a suit and tie on and we're in a cable news studio and we're in a first world country, we're in the United States of America and we're having the basic thing that he's saying is like, what do you say? You're saying we're not going to go kill some motherfuckers? like, I mean, he was just putting it as like, do something. But what's something? is dropping bombs on human beings, you know, when like, yes, some innocent people are going to die. But okay, but it's the same thing. It's the same after 9-11, we're like, we got to go fucking invade some countries right now. That's the same impulse. It's like, they killed some of our people. You think we're not going to show them who the real killers are? You think there's a chance that you could come here and that is like the most human extinct ever. It's like some other tribe just came in here and killed some people in our tribe. So what do you want to do about that? Well, I don't know. It's not going to take me too long to figure out. We're going to go kill a bunch of people in their tribe. And I do think that like that is, I think that's the major motivating factor for both sides of the Israel-Palestine conflict. I think that's the major motivator for both sides of the war on terror conflict. And it's like, that's, it's, In a way, when you look at it like that, there's something, even though it's so dark and tragic, there's something almost beautiful about it where you're like, oh, we're all caught in this same cycle.

Dave Smith: And then Ron Paul was just like, no, look, here's the thing. If we think we can just go around the world killing people, propping up dictatorships, putting our military bases in the Muslims' holy land and not engender hatred from that, then we do that at our own peril. And I thought that was, it was such an interesting kind of, it had always been, I'm an 80s and 90s kid. And to me, it was always kind of a given that like America's number one, we're the force for good in the world. And it was like an interesting introduction to the idea that there are people outside of that who are dominated by that, who don't care for it very much. And like that, that's what 9-11 was actually about. And for me, I was living in New York City. I was 18, I think, when 9-11 happened. And that was like the moment of my childhood. It was a huge thing to live through. I mean, we were attacked. This seemed like something that could only happen in a history book. That didn't happen to America in the 90s. 2001 was basically the 90s. And it was just like, oh, finally it clicked. It was like, that makes sense. It was the first time I had ever heard like an explanation and an understanding of this whole thing that we're involved in now, from 9-11 to the terror wars, that actually just made perfect sense.

Dave Smith: The military industrial complex in America. It's so big and it's so sophisticated. And it's so, it's not just that there's, there's this, there's the intelligence agencies, there's the weapons manufacturers, then there's the like people in the media who are either directly or indirectly just parroting, you know what I mean, all of their talking points. And so it's not just that you can kind of like, you make money when there's a conflict, but you have this entire apparatus to like create the conflict and then create the public sentiment for that. And then we're, And it's interesting, we're in an interesting place because we're kind of in this like new frontier of now where shows like this can happen and there's a lot of them and a lot of them are humongous like yours. But for so long, this just didn't exist. And it was just like, oh, like for so long, it was the case that like the New York Times and NBC and CBS and ABC and the Washington Post and the Associated Press, I guess, they could just move the nation. I mean, if they wanted to be like, hey, there is the idea that, forget even like after 9/11, the idea that in 1990, 1991, that there was any organic movement from the American people going, you know, we really got to see about the Saddam Hussein guy. You know, the dictator in Iraq is having a slant drilling dispute with the Amir of Kuwait. we really got to do something about it. Like that is not something that organically came from any, that was not like a few soccer moms hanging out, watching their kids game being like, I really do think, I think in a couple of years we're going to have to send these boys over to Iraq. Like that's not, they just from the top down were able to create this feeling that like, hey, there's a new Adolf Hitler on the rise over here in Iraq. We got to go see about this. There are these poor people in Kuwait. We have to do that. You know, like there's, they were able to create this desire for war that was, it's really incredible when you think about it, because there's, I think for the most part in human history, you would have had to have some type of plausible threat, some type of plausible reality to convince people that we actually have to go to war in order to deal with this. Whereas like, the United States, the idea that in 1991, the United States of America would feel threatened by Iraq was just ridiculous. And yet they were able to do it.

Dave Smith: October 7th happening was an indictment of the entire occupation slash siege of Gaza and the West Bank, for that matter. It was, I think, should have probably forever destroyed the legacy of Benjamin Netanyahu, who is, you know, I mean, this isn't like George W. Bush, you know, was, I mean, he was on the job for almost a year when 9-11 happened, but it was still kind of new, you know, like it was still kind of in his first year of being president. Benjamin Netanyahu was the longest serving prime minister in Israeli history and had explicitly been like, I'm the tough right-winger who's going to be tough on these Palestinians who's going to like move away from the idea of coming to a two-state solution because this is what we need to keep us safe. Like the justification is like, I'm going to be hard on these motherfuckers because that's because I know what it takes to keep us safe. And that culminates in the worst massacre in Israeli history. And then, I mean, the other big one is that, I mean, and it's not like a, I wouldn't even say an open secret at this point. It's just out in the open. And he had this strategy of propping up Hamas for years. And so he had this strategy of propping up Hamas for a myriad of reasons. But a major part of it was that, look, man, as long as there's terrorists in power there, there's never going to be any pressure on us to give the Palestinians a state because, look, what are you telling me I got to negotiate with them? He was allowing Qatar money to float. Insisting that Qatar money float to them. When the Qatar money dried up, sent the Mossad in to insist that it gets back to him. Hundreds of millions of dollars, briefcases and cash. And he said in his own words that the reason for doing this was to keep to his words were prop up Hamas, bolster Hamas, to keep them in power so that the West Bank and the Gazans were divided and that the international community as well as of the liberal Jewish community in Israel wouldn't be able to put pressure on them to make a deal.

Dave Smith: And then, I mean, the other big one is that, I mean, and it's not like a, I wouldn't even say an open secret at this point. It's just out in the open. And he had this strategy of propping up Hamas for years. ... a major part of it was that, look, man, as long as there's terrorists in power there, there's never going to be any pressure on us to give the Palestinians a state because, look, what are you telling me I got to negotiate with them? He was allowing Qatar money to float. Insisting that Qatar money float to them. When the Qatar money dried up, sent the Mossad in to insist that it gets back to him. Hundreds of millions of dollars, briefcases and cash. And he said in his own words that the reason for doing this was to keep to his words were prop up Hamas, bolster Hamas, to keep them in power so that the West Bank and the Gazans were divided and that the international community as well as of the liberal Jewish community in Israel wouldn't be able to put pressure on them to make a deal.

Dave Smith: I mean, it's a tragedy that the Arabs embraced terrorism. I don't think it's unique to them. And in fact, you know, I think it was the Zionist militias who introduced terrorism to that part of the world. But there was also like, there, look, terrorism persists because it works. And this is true with state terrorism and with non-state terrorism. It's like terrorism has often worked for people. I think the thing, like early, I think early Yasser Arafat, I know was very influenced by the Algerians who successfully kicked the French out embracing terrorism. And it was almost like the major miscalculation of those Palestinian Arabs who did embrace terrorism was that this isn't the French. This isn't the French hanging out in some colony with their home country back home, where maybe a few acts of violence could work enough to, you know, the liberal population back home is like, oh, I really didn't like the response to that terrorism. We killed so many people. Forget it. This is too much of A headache. Let's get out of here. The Zionist settlers were there to stay. They weren't going anywhere. They weren't going back to Eastern Europe. But I mean, they weren't, they were just that. And so it's a tragedy that this whole thing went the way it did. But you always, whenever you're talking about like a conflict like this, the person who has the, or the party who has the power is the one who needs to make concessions, you know, and the, it's just indefensible that the status quo of the Palestinian people having no rights. Literally no rights. Being ruled by a government that they do not get to vote for or against, no right to do commerce with the outside world, no freedom of travel, no freedom of movement, no basic property rights, can be kicked out of your home at any time, no right to a fair trial, no right to a lawyer, no right to a jury of your peers. I mean, the fact that has been the status quo since 1967 is just indefensible. And then in the context that has been the status quo, I guess I'm just not, even though I'm against it, it's kind of like when you're just lecturing about the way in which they resist this. I think it's very tough to be on a strong moral footing, you know?

Dave Smith: The real problem is the occupation that starts in 1967. Because look, when you've occupied an area since 1967, you can't even really call it an occupation anymore. It's an annexation. You know, you took these lands. You have control. You are what the definition of the government is. And you could call Hamas the government all you want to, but they're not the sovereigns. They're not the final decision makers. Israel's the final decision maker. Hamas does not meaningfully in any way decide the biggest questions about Gaza. I'm talking before this war, not even, you know, pre-October 7th. And so the problem Israel has in order to call themselves a democracy is that there's somewhere between 5 and 6 million people, less now, because they've killed a lot of them, but there's somewhere between 5 and 6 million people who live under Israeli control who do not have voting rights. And I just, by any other reasonable, commonly held standard of democracy, we would not call that a democracy. I mean, like, I'm not, again, I'm not even saying this to try to be inflammatory or try to pick on the Israelis. There's things about Israeli society I like. I don't hate the people there. I'm Jewish. I love Jewish people. It's not, but the fact is that's not a democracy. That's an apartheid state. Like, and that's just, I'm not even trying to be inflammatory when I say this. It's just literally describing what's in front of you. If we in America right now said, black people no longer get to vote and black people can only live in these few neighborhoods. We don't get to call ourselves a democracy anymore then. You know, and like I'm not even coming at this from a pro-democracy point of view. I'm just saying like if your defense of them is like, well, we're a democracy, which seems to be the case so much. Well, no, you're really not. You're really not as long as you got millions of people who have no say in their own government. Like then you're really not a democracy.

Dave Smith: And so the problem Israel has in order to call themselves a democracy is that there's somewhere between 5 and 6 million people, less now, because they've killed a lot of them, but there's somewhere between 5 and 6 million people who live under Israeli control who do not have voting rights. And I just, by any other reasonable, commonly held standard of democracy, we would not call that a democracy. ... That's not a democracy. That's an apartheid state. ... it rings a little hollow to me to just call them a death cult. Like we're the democracy, even though none of, you know, there's millions of people who can't vote over, you know, who rules them. But they're the death cult.

Dave Smith: When you've occupied an area since 1967, you can't even really call it an occupation anymore. It's an annexation. You know, you took these lands. You have control. You are what the definition of the government is. And you could call Hamas the government all you want to, but they're not the sovereigns. They're not the final decision makers. Israel's the final decision maker. Hamas does not meaningfully in any way decide the biggest questions about Gaza. I'm talking before this war, not even, you know, pre-October 7th. And so the problem Israel has in order to call themselves a democracy is that there's somewhere between 5 and 6 million people, less now, because they've killed a lot of them, but there's somewhere between 5 and 6 million people who live under Israeli control who do not have voting rights. And I just, by any other reasonable, commonly held standard of democracy, we would not call that a democracy. I mean, like, I'm not, again, I'm not even saying this to try to be inflammatory or try to pick on the Israelis. There's things about Israeli society I like. I don't hate the people there. I'm Jewish. I love Jewish people. It's not, but the fact is That's not a democracy. That's an apartheid state. Like, and that's just, I'm not even trying to be inflammatory when I say this. It's just literally describing what's in front of you. If we in America right now said, black people no longer get to vote and black people can only live in these few neighborhoods. We don't get to call ourselves a democracy anymore then. You know, and like I'm not even coming at this from a pro-democracy point of view. I'm just saying like if your defense of them is like, well, we're a democracy, which seems to be the case so much. Well, no, you're really not. You're really not as long as you got millions of people who have no say in their own government. Like then you're really not a democracy.